Legislature(2003 - 2004)
02/03/2004 01:33 PM House TRA
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 388-YOUNG CAN'T RENEW DRIVERS LICENSE BY MAIL Number 1322 CHAIR HOLM announced that the final order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 388, "An Act relating to renewal of a driver's license by applicants 25 years of age or younger; and providing for an effective date." Number 1355 REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MEYER, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor, explained how HB 388 fills a loophole in current statute. Noting that it requires any person under the age of 25 to renew his/her driver's license at the Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV) office, he added that although there is a big push within the state to encourage people to use the mail, the rationale of this bill will come with further testimony. REPRESENTATIVE MEYER explained that his office was approached by Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD), Brown Jug Liquor, and DMV to sponsor this legislation; those entities felt HB 388 was necessary because of the high rate of fraudulent use of driver's licenses. He explained that many young people are renewing their driver's licenses via mail, giving it to a younger sibling or friend, and then taking a birth certificate to the DMV and getting a new driver's license for themselves. He cited a large number of fake driver's licenses that are confiscated at Chilkoot Charlie's, among other establishments, as a reason for this legislation. Number 1478 REPRESENTATIVE MEYER said DMV, Brown Jug Liquor, MADD, and others are interested in reducing the number of fraudulent driver's license cases, especially in the 18- to 25-year-old age group. He said he felt adults should be concerned and try to prohibit underage kids from obtaining tobacco and/or alcohol. REPRESENTATIVE MEYER explained that passage of HB 388 would assist DMV in its transition to take digital pictures for the licenses. The bill would require all people under age 25 to turn in their old driver's licenses when they go into DMV to renew their licenses, thus eliminating the use of the old licenses for fraudulent purposes. He pointed out that driver's licenses are more than just something that allows someone to drive; they are widely used as a credible source of positive identification (ID). REPRESENTATIVE MEYER emphasized that HB 388 is an attempt to help the State of Alaska, as well as private businesses, keep underage kids from obtaining tobacco or alcohol. Although it won't prevent all kids from obtaining fake ID, tobacco, or alcohol, it will help close a loophole in the statutes and make it harder for underage kids to obtain fake ID. Number 1615 CINDY CASHEN, Executive Director, Juneau Chapter, Mothers Against Drunk Driving, began by saying she was representing the four [Alaska] chapters of MADD: the Anchorage, Fairbanks, Juneau, Mat-Su chapters. She said MADD hopes HB 388 will pass because of the belief that it will make a difference in underage drinking. Remarking that it was nice that the liquor industry was on the "same team" to help prevent minors from consuming alcohol, she noted that HB 388 came about after she, Mr. Madden from Brown Jug Liquor, and Ms. Hennings from DMV met to address problems with underage drinking and possible solutions. Number 1666 REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH quoted from the January 21, 2004, e- mailed document from Mr. Madden: "What we are finding is that in many cases, these IDs that have been renewed through the mail are handed down to younger siblings, who then use the ID to attempt to purchase alcohol." Asking if there was any backup information to support that statement, he said he'd feel more comfortable supporting HB 388 if the points were more than just hearsay. MS. CASHEN replied that the committee would be hearing from Mr. Madden and from Chilkoot Charlie's; they would have that information. [Ms. Cashen was informed that those people weren't on teleconference.] MS. CASHEN said she wasn't a clerk at a liquor establishment, but has conversed with clerks at these places who have told her that fake IDs were a problem. Number 1728 REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH clarified that he wanted his constituents to know that the decisions made were based on something concrete. MS. CASHEN agreed with Representative Kookesh and said those facts would be presented to the committee. Number 1755 REPRESENTATIVE OGG asked why HB 388 affects people up to age 25, when the legal drinking age is 21. MS. CASHEN deferred to Ms. Hennings from DMV. REPRESENTATIVE OGG said he'd like an answer to that question before moving forward with HB 388. He asked for further clarification on the change in policy that would be enacted by HB 388 and how there would be fewer instances of minors obtaining fake IDs. Number 1819 REPRESENTATIVE MEYER said DMV will answer the questions, and explained to Representative Kookesh that his office has received letters from Brown Jug Liquor stating that it has collected many fake IDs. He explained to Representative Ogg that if someone obtains numerous duplicate licenses from the DMV, that person is "flagged" and the DMV investigates the circumstances and informs the individual that he or she is participating in fraudulent activities. REPRESENTATIVE OGG asked what the difference is between someone putting a sticker on his or her license and giving it to a minor versus obtaining a license and giving it to a minor and going back to DMV and getting a duplicate license. He asked how HB 388 would change the number of people who would commit this fraudulent activity. CHAIR HOLM suggested hearing testimony from DMV to help clarify some of the issues. Number 1930 DUANE BANNOCK, Director, Division of Motor Vehicles, Department of Administration, used an example that under the current system, someone under age 25 could renew his or her license today by just obtaining a sticker via the mail. He said DMV wants to take those licenses out of circulation; eliminating the option of renewal by mail would make it more difficult for a younger person to use a fake ID, because the older ID would be expired. CHAIR HOLM commented that once a license is expired, it is no longer legal, and if someone was relying on an expired piece of identification to obtain liquor, the establishments are not supposed to sell to someone without valid ID, so he or she shouldn't be able to use the license. Number 2028 MR. BANNOCK said Representative Holm was correct in his assessment, but under the current system, a 24-year-old will renew the license via mail, put the sticker on the back, and hand off the renewed license to the minor, essentially providing the minor with a fake ID that is valid for five years. He said the older person can go get a duplicate license and have his or her own valid personal ID. MR. BANNOCK clarified that HB 388 eliminates the renewal stickers for people under age 25, so their licenses will expire and not be a legal form of ID that could be used by a minor. CHAIR HOLM asked if the older person could simply renew a license, hand it off to a minor, and then go to DMV and obtain a duplicate license. MR. BANNOCK answered that it could happen, but HB 388 doesn't allow the older person to give the individual an ID that has a sticker on the back that makes it valid for five more years. Number 2094 REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH asked what would prevent someone who was 26 years old from doing the same thing that was not allowed to someone that was under 25 years old. Referring back to the question he'd asked Ms. Cashen, he asked if there was a specific case where the events that have been described have happened; if so, he said he'd like to see it. Number 2130 KERRY HENNINGS, Driver Licensing Manager, Division of Motor Vehicles, Department of Administration, responded that DMV receives many pouches of confiscated driver's licenses from law enforcement, liquor stores, and bars that have come from minors who were attempting to fraudulently use them to obtain alcohol. She cited cases where younger siblings will use an older sibling's ID when dealing with the police, pointing out that she is working on a case right now where a younger brother got a DUI [driving under the influence] ticket and used his older brother's ID, claiming he was his older brother. She said instances like these happen all the time and are very unfortunate. MS. HENNINGS said what makes HB 388 different is that because of the new digital photography system, the clerk will be able to look at the old photograph of the person who was renewing the license that the DMV has on file, and can make a positive identification before renewing the license. Under the current system, by contrast, clerks rely on paper documents to establish identification. She predicted that using the digital photograph system would drastically reduce the amount of driver's license fraud. Number 2197 CHAIR HOLM asked if Ms. Hennings was saying DMV is giving out a lot of fraudulent driver's licenses. MS. HENNINGS responded that she wasn't saying that, but people have misused the system. She added that DMV works to the best of its ability to issue the proper licenses to the proper people, but the digital image system will cut back on fraud. REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH asked if the digital image system is currently in place. MS. HENNINGS said it isn't up and running now, but would be within the next few months. REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH asked if that system relies on passage of HB 388 to be set up. MS. HENNINGS said no. REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH asked why HB 388 needed to be passed. Number 2230 MS. HENNINGS shared that DMV wanted a clean database of photographs and wanted to get the old pouch of licenses out of circulation. Without renewal by mail, those pouches of licenses would expire; the person would need to come into DMV and could get a digital photo on file. She added that between the ages of 16 and 25, people's physical attributes change drastically. Number 2248 REPRESENTATIVE STEPOVICH asked if something on the driver's license would give away fraud, or if DMV needed to establish fraud by checking numbers or waiting until people get caught trying to fraudulently use an ID. MS. HENNINGS said they usually get the fraudulent IDs from liquor stores or bars where minors are trying to use them to obtain alcohol. REPRESENTATIVE STEPOVICH clarified that he wanted to know if anything on the license itself makes it apparent that it is being used fraudulently. He gave an example of a younger kid using an ID who looks way too young and gets caught because of that. MS. HENNINGS said it is the establishments that have caught the fraudulent use. She opined that it is hard to determine people's ages when they are that age; the photos are old, and the people look so young in them, making it easier for a young person to pass as being older. REPRESENTATIVE STEPOVICH asked if the confiscated IDs that DMV receives from the various bars and liquor stores have been valid IDs, just being used fraudulently. MS. HENNINGS answered affirmatively. Number 2339 REPRESENTATIVE OGG posed the following scenario: a 24-year-old man renews his license through the mail and puts the sticker on the back, making it valid. He then goes to DMV - claiming he lost his license, when really he gave it to his younger brother - and obtains a duplicate. The second scenario he posed took into account the effects of HB 388: a 24-year-old man goes to DMV and receives a new license; he then goes to DMV a couple of weeks later and says he lost that license - when really he gave it to his younger brother - and obtains a duplicate license. Representative Ogg asked how HB 388 would prevent that from happening, suggesting the loophole still exists. MS. HENNINGS replied that the only thing HB 388 would do to prevent that would be that the more current photo would make it easier for the clerk at DMV to identify someone who was attempting to fraudulently obtain an ID. REPRESENTATIVE OGG offered his understanding that the premise of HB 388 isn't necessarily to stop the fraud, but to make sure there are current photos. He said there is a need for that because people change so drastically between ages 16 and 25. TAPE 04-3, SIDE B Number 2387 MS. HENNINGS responded that the current photo is one benefit of HB 388. More important, however, it gets the old licenses off the street and helps ensure that the younger photos aren't used. Number 2356 MR. BANNOCK pointed out that under the current system, someone could get a license at the age of 17 and it would be valid, if renewed by mail, until age 27. He said HB 388 ensures that an ID would only have a circulation period of five years. He noted the benefit of the digital photo files, but said DMV would support this bill if the digital imaging was not in progress. Number 2321 CHAIR HOLM remarked that he is curious whether there is a relationship between digitizing the IDs and a homeland security database. MR. BANNOCK responded that there was no effort to create a national database, citing that digital images are just harder to counterfeit, and Alaska is one of the only states that still use Polaroid photos for IDs. REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH offered his belief that the average age for someone in the military in [Iraq] is 21 to 24 years; this bill will impact those people because they are out of the country. He said he has a problem penalizing people just because they are under the age of 25. MS. HENNINGS noted that a statute grants a military extension to anyone who is out of the country on duty; that extension allows 90 days to renew that person's license upon return to Alaska. REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH said he was just using that as one example of something he felt was unfair, saying that he didn't like treating people under the age of 25 differently from everyone else. Number 2214 REPRESENTATIVE OGG said he had some of the same concerns as Representative Kookesh and wanted to know if there was a way to make this law affect only those people who are 21 years old and younger. MS. HENNINGS replied that it was set up that way because not everyone who comes to DMV to get a license for the first time is 16 years old; a person could be 21, and those licenses are good for five years from the time they were obtained. She used that and the fact that DMV wants to remove the older-type license out of circulation as the reasons for extending the age to 25. MS. HENNINGS explained that under current statute, a person over the age of 69 cannot renew a license through the mail because of the public safety issue; instead, that person must come in so that it can be determined whether the person is medically in shape, has full faculties, and has had a vision exam. She went on to say DMV views passage of HB 388 as a public safety issue, helping to limit young people's consumption of alcohol. Number 2129 REPRESENTATIVE OGG suggested that if DMV were really trying to make this a public safety issue, making it harder for minors to obtain a fake ID, it would make sense that people would be required to get a new driver's license at the age of 21, regardless of when the first one was obtained. MR. BANNOCK replied that it wasn't that he disagreed with those comments. He said DMV is taking into consideration the needs of the young people who are getting licenses. He added that the data DMV has indicates that the majority of people who get their driver's licenses before the age of 21 will come into DMV when they turn 21, specifically to obtain a new license; the license received before someone turns 21 says "under 21" in three different places. Number 2052 CHAIR HOLM remarked that he was having some struggle moving HB 388 because there hasn't been any data to support the claims that have been made. He said he hasn't seen that this bill will cure a problem and that it is a significant enough problem to attempt to solve it. MR. BANNOCK said he'll get the data to the committee. He also clarified that HB 388 won't cure the problem [of underage drinking], but is a giant step in the right direction to eliminate a possible way for a minor to access alcohol. He said he was confident that passage of HB 388 would make it harder for a minor to fraudulently use an ID. Number 1968 CHAIR HOLM thanked Mr. Bannock and announced that public testimony would be held open. [HB 388 was held over.]
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|